Please note that this is NOT the same player that plays the current Penelope! It is a completely different player and different character.
| Details for Farewell to Penelope |
| Summary: |
Penelope, after constant issues and troubles and complaints from players, has pushed Seancee and Boo to the breaking point. We make mistakes. We are human. But we don't tolerate a player bringing an entire game down with her negativity. We post this here so that everyone can see everyone's side, because I always strive to be open book, and to have a place to point to if/when this becomes an issue with others (already, we've had a guest show up to blast us for it). We are human, we have limits and she pushed those limits daily. Finally ending in yet more demands to be booted and sitebanned (nearly every conversation we have with her is peppered with this demand), Boo gives her what she asks for. We do not take this lightly. We are saddened that this happened. There's many many logs below to demonstrate the constant source of negativity and strain on us and worse on other players who came forward to complain about her bad attitude. We have done this for what we feel is the good of the game. We hope after reading it you will agree, and we will also respect you if you don't. But Witchcraft & Wizardry is a place for fun and family community and Penelope did all in her power to antagonize those around her. |
| Date: | October |
| Location: | N/A |
| Related: | Every Log we can salvage of our dealings with the player Penelope are below. We received many complaints about this player, but have omitted those here to protect the identity of the troubled player. If you have a log of your own that you wish to give over in proof of issue please do. Editing out names to further attempt protection of identity is acceptable. We'll also be adding more evidence when we clean it up. |
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Table of Contents
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(2012-10; exact date uncertain) A Difficult Guest Returns
(At this point, the Guest that will become Penelope has already been on before, and we went round and round about the picture of a 21-year-old that she wanted to use for a 15-16 year old student. She insisted it was passable. I disagreed, and aside from that, it was in clear violation of our Theme Policy. This becomes a major theme of most of my interactions with her. — SeanCee)
Questions> Guest has connected.
<Questions> Guest says, "Hi"
<Questions> Sloan says, "Hi guest"
<Questions> SeanCee says, "Welcome, Guest!"
<Questions> Guest says, "Same guest as talked to you other night SeanCee."
<Questions> Guest says, "Trying to come up with a new character concept."
<Questions> SeanCee says, "Welcome back, then! :) Let me know if I can offer any assistance."
<Questions> Guest says, "Well, wondering if there's any fields a recent graduate can get involved around the school, or any other busy areas."
<Questions> Keenan says, "let us know if you need any help"
<Questions> Guest says, "More discouraged with lack of ideas than anything else."
<Questions> Ria says, "There are a lot of retail rooms open so you could totally open a business"
<Questions> Ria says, "A place that could generate RP"
<Questions> Keenan nodnods.
<Questions> Guest says, "Probably too young for that, just too old for Hogwarts according to staff."
<Questions> Ria says, "it could be a family inherited business."
<Questions> Keenan says, "you could get into anything anywhere… especially if you have connections of some sort. Niamh was a youngster when she inherited the Apothecary."
<Questions> Guest says, "Maybe, I guess."
<Questions> Leander says, "If you want interaction with students you can also aim to have a business/job in Hogsmeade somewhere."
<Questions> Gabrielle says, "you could just work somewhere then…."
<Questions> Laurence says, "You could indeed have a job at one of the established businesses."
<Questions> Guest says, "Well, I'll look around. I don't know why I'm struggling so much, but I have been."
<Questions> SeanCee says, "Sorry, I had to run AFK for a few. So, if she's a recent graduate who went all the way through 7th Year, then she's probably already been counselled on a profession to aim for. So, depending on what that profession is would determine what sort of word/training/internship she'd be doing now."
<Questions> Guest says, "Yeah, I'm just totally lost there."
<Questions> Laurence says, "Does she like candy? Or serving drinks?"
<Questions> SeanCee says, "I think you may have already seen this, but this page is a good place to look for possible concepts: http://wandw.wikidot.com/what-should-i-play"
<Questions> Guest says, "I've looked, I'm not really hitting on anything though. I'd wanted to do the student thing and having trouble re-concepting. Anyhow, I appreciate the kind comments, I should probably slip off until I find something to feel good about."
<Questions> Gilbert says, "How about an inter at St. Mungo's?"
<Questions> Gilbert says, "intern even…"
<Questions> Guest says, "Not feeling it. I need to come up with something myself, I think, or I won't really embrace it, if that makes any sense."
<Questions> Edwin says, "Think about what you really liked in the movies and go from there."
<Questions> Mabel notes for guest that we're a little short on sixth and seventh year students, so there's lots of room there?
<Questions> Guest says, "That was my first choice Mabel, but not really an option."
<Questions> Mabel missed previous conversations you may have had, so not sure why, there.
<Questions> SeanCee says, "I'm not sure how to help if suggestions are immediately discounted by virtue of not being your idea. But do let us know if there is anything we can actually help with."
<Questions> Guest says, "Yeah, thanks. Hard to explain, but I appreciate the helpfulness."
<Questions> Boo says, "Look forward to your return when you've gotten things figured out."
<Questions> Guest says, "Thanks, me too. I hope I do."
<Questions> Guest has disconnected.
Keenan pages: I don't understand, why can they not be a student? Did they try something house sparklypoo that got turned down?
<Public> Gilbert says, "Can't help himself. Soooo, why was playing a sixth or seventh year not an option? Was s/he wanting a special snowflake type character?"
<Public> Edwin thinks they wanted to come in with not having been to the school for some reason.
<Public> Boo says, "Seancee is explaining. ;D Just a mo."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Basically, it comes down to her statement that if she doesn't come up with the idea, she can't do it. Apparently that applies to Actors/PBs as well. She wanted a particular Actor, but she was too old for a student. I'm not saying this to embarrass the player or anything. But since people are asking, I wanted to clarify before speculation went wild. ;)"
<Public> Keenan says, "she paged something to the effect to me, too… which, I don't know. Doesn't work for me that way, personally. I usually make a character and find a PB to match…"
<Public> Boo says, "It's to each their own truly. Moral of the story is, don't get passive aggressive when you don't get your way. We're happy to work /with/ and help people (as tons of you know) with it. But when a person asks for/needs help and then pulls the, "Well I need to be the one to figure it out…after I ask for help." That's a big WTF? Have a nice day."
<Public> Maudlin nods.
<Public> Mabel nods. I'm glad Boo and Seancee seem to have a talent for casting PBs. Not much you can do if someone's wanting help but not wanting help, though.
(That last pose was included not to pat ourselves on the back, but to demonstrate that we regularly assist people with finding suitable actors for their characters. We don't just say "no" and throw them to the wolves. But what can we do when we are literally told that if the player doesn't come up with the PB herself, that she just can't work with it?)
(2012-10-16) Penelope Is Welcomed
<Questions> Penelope says, "seancee=Any word on the student guy you were undecided about?"
Penelope pages: Any word on the student guy you were undecided about?1
<Public> Penelope says, "I guess I'll try them both again later."
You paged Penelope with 'Sorry, I was AFK. I admit, I'm just not comfortable giving the okay to someone that uncertain (I do realize that there are differing perspectives on how old he looks). Though, I thought you'd settled on Emma Roberts?'
Penelope pages: Only if the other guy was a no, and I've since soured on Emma. So other guy is a definite no too?
You paged Penelope with 'As students, yeah, I'm going to have to say no. I'm sorry.'
<Public> Penelope has disconnected.
<Questions> Penelope has disconnected.
<Public> Penelope has connected.
<Questions> Penelope has connected.
Penelope pages: Can I ask the process in maybe making an Auror? I tried to get some enthusiasm for Michelle Trachtenberg but that didn't fly so I'm just going to focus on adults and if I want the wonder and joyfulness of Hogwarts I can re-watch the movies. :/
You paged Penelope with 'Can you please refrain from the unnecessary comments about your disappointment? This is what we mean when we talk about passive-aggressiveness. There was no need to say anything beyond asking about playing an Auror. That's something I can help with. The rest serves no purpose beyond making me feel bad because you're disappointed.'
Penelope pages: I actually mentioned it for a reason, and that reason had nothing to do with you feeling bad, but rather possibly helping me, so to me it was a quite necessary comment. But if you really feel that twitchy about me and ready to assume the worst of me then I am sorry you feel so badly of me and will not darken your doorstep further with clumsy attempts to find help. I apologize. :(
Penelope pages: But yeah, I'm definitely disappointed — now. I wasn't before you made that assumption and made me feel unwelcome.
You paged Penelope with 'You don't need to express your disappointment to me in order to help yourself. So, no, it was not necessary. I'm trying to be patient and helpful, but you are making this process much more difficult than it needs to be. I admit, I am very frustrated.'
Penelope pages: It was necessary, and the fact that even now you didn't ask me WHY I was disappointed, just jumped to conclusions speaks volumes. So if you're curious to know what you missed, ask and I'll tell. If you don't care, I'll just move on and this will be how I remember the place. :/
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: Alright, I think I should step in here. Penelope, you are very welcomed here. However it's becoming exhausting trying to please you with anything. Nothing seems to be good enough for you, so I hope you can see why we are drawing more and more frustrated when faced with your 'disappointments'. It's no one's job to go fishing for what's troubling you. If you want to share what's going on that's your responsibility, not ours. This place is all about a positive attitude and we've yet to truly see that from you. If you can manage to show us, than please do. If you can't then please understand that this isn't an environment for pessimistic attitudes.
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: The amount of hours we have put into trying to make you feel welcome and get you settled here is more than we've done with any other player. Fishing for sympathy/attention (re: 'I'm disappointed, but going to make you ask what's wrong instead of telling you in the first place) is a form of being passive aggressive and a big time sink (hence our exhaustion at this point). Once again we feel like we are breaking our backs trying to help you get settled and all we get in return is complaints and replies that come across as pouting. Seancee and I aren't above apologizing. You can ask everyone on this game. We know we make mistakes and we own up to them. But this wasn't a mistake. This was us trying to help you and get nothing but guilt and disappointment in return. We are sorry your feelings are hurt, we are. But our feelings have been hurt as well which is something that you seem to care very little about as well. Please, make a character. Follow our policies. Find an actress or actor that you like, that you know and can prove matches the same age as your character no more guess work that puts us through the ringer with every iteration. Don't ask for our help and then toss it back at us. It shouldn't be this hard for anyone involved, it's a game, have fun with it! Please? That's all we ask.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: I'm afraid we'll have to differ on how your words come across and how your tone is received. The bit about proving by the way ia directly contradictory to what you told me in the past. It seems to me that you have a specific (and, to me, hurtful) view of me in your minds and I am not comfortable playing for people I feel look down on me. And in fairness your responses here are reinforcing my own view that I will not be welcome here, really welcome, or receive equitable treatment, and that sucks because I was really so excited to try. No need for drama or anything, I'm not going to make a scene or say a word about the place unless asked by a friend, which seems unlikely in the extreme. I wish you well, and that we hadn't gotten off on poor footing. Please be well, and best wishes for your site.
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: We would love to have you on the game. You just have to please realize that the constant re-iterations and trying to leap through hoops to make you feel welcome and help you only to be rebuked is exhausting. There's obvious copious amounts of miscommunication. Because your tone comes across as you don't intend it to as does ours to you. Which I believe has a lot to do with the medium we're working on. But I think you of all people know that I won't tell someone they are welcomed when they are not. I am done begging you to make a character and done trying to make you feel welcomed because it's obviously failing. Please take care, I was very sorry to hear about how you fared after the last time you spoke nearly those same words. No one should feel like that. As I said, we really wanted you to come back, make a character and join in the fun and family like community we have here. If that's not enough for you, than I truly am genuinely very sorry things didn't work out a second time.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: But I never asked you to jump through any hoops, and your feeling otherwise just makes me sad. All I asked from you was, on a few occasions, if we could talk about buildings when it was convenient to you. Put yourselves in my shoes. Would you feel safe here? It's clear that you have very warm feelings towards those players you haven't had issue with. That
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: that's what I was looking for because this is my whole social life for reasons not relevant to this talk. I don't want to be tolerated, I want to be a part of a community, but that requires one that wants me, not one that struggles to find new ways to tell me how I am messing up. You may not see it but I know I was floored by Sean's initial reply to me. It had me in tears because I knew that it meant nice words aside, given any opportunity I will be treated as a problem, not an asset. :(
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: I can't continue to try to convince you. You are welcomed here. Period. We just can no longer devote the sort of attention we have. You didn't ask, but we are the sort of people and staff that do jump through hoops for a new player. It's just not turned out well in this instance, thanks to a lot of miscommunication, on this tone-less medium. Sean's original reply was blunt yes, because once again you were coming across poorly. We are sure you're very sweet RL. Which is why we seriously just want to get you a character, get you approved, get you into the community and get past all of this. Which I've now said multiple times. But I'm not going to continue to beg for you to do so.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: You've never once begged me to do anything, nor would I want that. But I find it interesting that, in talking about all the attention you supposedly devote, the one thing you've not done is answered either of the two (and only two) direct questions I have asked of either of you in your role as staff. Sean's original reply was rude because instead of actually answering the question I asked him, he chose to address assumptions (wrong assumptions I must add) about a secondary comment rather than answer the question. If he HAD wished to address my comment without jumping to conclusions about me, a simple 'what is it about looking for pics for her frustrated you?' would have prevented any misunderstanding and might even have led to him suggesting how he finds better luck with period outfits — which was why I mentioned it in the first place. Look, I see clearly that you're trying very hard to be NICE, and I appreciate that. But you are missing, or refusing to consider, that none of that would be needed if you were more careful about the assumptions you leapt to. Because that's not all on the medium, and pretending it is does no one any good. I haven't heard from Sean since you stepped in. Should I assume that he's just disgusted and doesn't want anything to do with me? Or that— My point being that what I should do is not assume anything at all and ASK if I have concerns. It goes both ways and for all your kind words it's the one area you have refused to give an inch on, and it happens to be the one area that my ability to trust you hinges on. :( As long as that's the case, you would be better off booting me. Because I'll always be afraid while I'm under that cloud.
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: Then please, just ask your questions directly.
You paged Boo and Penelope with 'My alleged rudeness stemmed from a consistent pattern of behavior that you refuse to acknowledge exists. We are not imagining this. Other players on the game have commented on it, wondering if we understood why you were behaving that way. I am frustrated, and I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall every time we communicate. I have tried to be patient and listen. I have tried making suggestions. I have tried pointing you toward our policies. I have tried being encouraging when you found ideas that you seemed to latch onto (only to see them quickly shelved). I've tried telling you exactly how to make this process go smoother, but that just doesn't work for you. So, I'm out of options, at this point. Bluntness is all I have left.'
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: Well, if there is a pattern I would rather be told of it than accused of something I may not be aware of. And while I could point out some fallacies in your last post Sean, that is only useful if one is trying to win an argument. I don't want to be arguing at all. And I feel confident in taking from your tone in your last post that you're more comfortable getting frustrated with me than you would be saying "hey, this is bugging me" and giving me a chance to change my approach before feelings got hurt. Well, my feelings are pretty hurt now, and any hope I had that this could somehow be fixed and result in friendly relations between us is pretty much shattered. I'm not blaming you — I'm the first to admit that I can get confused and lost sometimes, and God knows I'm not very likeable no matter how hard I try. But experience also tells me that once someone takes the tone you just did with me, there's nothing I can do to fix anything and I've lost another potential chance at making friends. And in the end that's all I wanted, and I've fucked it up. I'm so sorry, I'll get out of your way. :(
You paged Boo and Penelope with 'That this pattern is news to you baffles me. This was exactly what the conversation was about the last time you nearly departed. No, nothing is irreparable. But at this point, it's on you to repair it. The best way to do that is exactly what Boo said. Just join the game. Join the community. Be positive, and have fun. We are not petty people, and are not prone to holding the past over anyone's head if they can change their behavior. Trust me, we've suffered slings far worse than frustration from other players, and they're still here. But again, it's up to you to decide if you want to be here. If you don't, I wish you well and I regret that things didn't work out. If you do, I look forward to moving on and seeing you flourish here.'
Boo pages SeanCee and Penelope: Also If you do, I'm still here waiting for those direct questions. Just ask the questions. Attaching anything like commentary and the like only bogs down the quickness the question can be answered with. We have a lot on our plate so direct clear conciseness is appreciated.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: That it baffles you is bad enough. Try living with knowing you're not normal and can't see it or fix it. As for Boo I don't know how to ask any more directly or concisely than I have: When you have time could we discuss the sort of buildings/addresses that might work for that character's concept. It's the only way I've ever phrased it. If ot
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: If it's somehow unclear please tell me. I'm stupid and things people assume are obvious often aren't to me.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: Anyhow I need to lie down and try to stop thinking about how I fuck everything up again. If either of you would like to talk to me away from the chat, my g-talk is <omitted for privacy> and my Skype is <omitted for privacy> thanks.
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: I have answered that question actually. But I think you were as you put it stoned on morphine. I said originally that the place I had in mind was in fact something that you can describe and name yourself. Though since then I've done a description, but an original name wouldn't go amiss. You've asked me to point it out and be blunt. But it's those little attachments that come across poorly. I'm seriously not trying to be mean or argue with you. Just trying to actually help you realize that it's the additions of things like 'I'm stupid and things people assume are obvious often aren't to me.' is what makes things difficult, uncomfortable and overtly negative. Which is the sort of things that we try to get away from here. When I ask you just for the question, and you tag little bits on. That comes across like you truly can't just ask a question without slinging mud or negativity.
From afar (to Boo and SeanCee), Penelope ( I said it because I am stupid (for one) and if you had answered it I didn't want you to think that I'd ignored it or was otherwise being disrespectful. :(
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: The negative commentary is truly unnecessary, unwarranted and unwanted I can't say it any more plainly than that. If you have some productive comments, that's great. We are a friendly sort here, truly. We all have our flaws and we get the chance to get away from them here. If you can't be around without slinging about self loathing and negativity, than this isn't the place for you. Because I protect my players from that. If you focused on the positive suggestions I've made in trying to get you a character here you'd be folded into that community. Which I think you'd hopefully appreciate me for cause I'm sure you wouldn't want to be exposed to someone else self depricating themselves all the time and just constantly being negative. I really do pray that you can find some positivity and join us. Till then go rest, your health as I've said trumps a game.
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: Sincerely, take care, when you're in a better mind frame please consider giving us another try. Cause I promise that while we are /frustrated/ (not hateful, etc) that's all it is and would like to be able to offer you our community as a health fun place to hang out.
<Public> Penelope has disconnected.
<Questions> Penelope has disconnected.
<Public> Penelope has connected.
<Questions> Penelope has connected.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: Am I still allowed to play here?
You paged Penelope and Boo with 'Of course. If you feel you can keep things positive, by all means, make a character.'
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: Sorry, I just had the shit beat out of me on the one other place I tried and since some of the same people are here I wasn't sure if anything had changed. It hasn't been a good day. I'd like to make a character but I'm scared I'll screw up in some way.
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: You're free to try here. If you screw up, you screw up. We'll let you know and try to be fair minded. Remember, stay positive.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: I just got banned from a place for the crime of asking if I'd get a fair chance and be treated like everyone else, then had to go around to the friends I'd invited to check it out because they seemed really nice there not to bother because I was not welcome there. And I never said a single thing there that was anything but friendly. Being positive is really hard right now. :(
Boo pages Penelope and SeanCee: We don't do MU bashing, crossing over or the such. So again, soon as you feel you can be a positive member of the community, you're welcomed to jump in.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: sadly the only teen I know is a teen is also wearing a pole jumper's outfit which is a bit athletic for 1936 girls at school methinks.
((This part includes a sample of interaction between Penelope and the community on our Questions channel. You can see the "awful" treatment she gets when she asks for help, and how she is "ignored."))
<Questions> Penelope says, "Well, leaving students aside for the moment, what kind of play is available for adult PCs? I have a sort-of concept that of itself would put me around Diagon Alley or somewhere similar, but not much more detail yet, or I am kind of considering an Auror but would be highly open to any RP chances."
<Questions> Lois says, "The adult side is quite active, and has (IMO) just as interesting - if not more - plots to play with at the moment."
<Questions> Boo likes the land lady idea!
<Questions> Penelope says, "Any suggestions? I know it's hard to comment when the PC isn't even made yet and I don't want spoilers or anything. Whereabouts is adult RP most active? What sort of qualities might help get into any plots currently running?"
<Questions> Josefa says, "Uh, we sort of just go wherever we want in the three areas."
<Questions> Penelope says, "Well, re land-lady I'd still need to talk to you about the area in question. Then it's easy — I just have to come up with everything else about the PC?"
<Questions> Penelope says, "Three areas?"
<Questions> Josefa says, "Diagon Alley, Muggle London, and Hogsmeade."
<Questions> Penelope says, "Gotcha."
<Questions> Penelope says, "Would you lease a home or shop from this person? http://flic.kr/p/djwMMV"
<Public> Penelope has disconnected.
<Questions> Penelope has disconnected.
<Public> Penelope has connected.
<Questions> Penelope has connected.
<Questions> Penelope says, "So while I'm waiting for Boo to have her dinner, can anyone help me understand how character creation is handled here if it's convenient?"
<Questions> Elspeth says, "what do you need to know about character creation?"
<Questions> Penelope says, "Pretty much everything. *wince*"
<Questions> Josefa says, "It's pretty standard, honestly… just read the room descs and follow the directions."
<Questions> Elspeth says, "ah, well, it's actually pretty straightforward as you go through"
<Questions> Elspeth nods.
<Questions> Penelope says, "Where do I go to find the rooms?"
<Questions> Josefa says, "'CG' will get you there, Pen."
<Questions> Penelope says, "Thanks!"
<Questions> Penelope says, "Anyone mind if I ask them about Attributes, and what appropriate numbers might be?"
<Questions> Seamus says, "You may want to check our wiki. SeanCee did a pretty good job with it."
<Questions> Penelope says, "Can you link me? I'm hip deep in lost right now."
<Questions> Maeve says, "Double check on a few things though. There are some of the old pages that no longer apply, such as with Attributes."
<Questions> Penelope says, "You mean the things I'm asking about now? *Winces*"
<Questions> Seamus says, "http://wandw.wikidot.com/chargen"
<Questions> Donner says, "For attributes, they go up to 4. Poor, Average, Good, Exceptional."
<Questions> SeanCee says, "Everything on and linked from the Character Generation Guide ( http://wandw.wikidot.com/chargen ) should be current. Please let me know if you find something that isn't."
<Questions> Penelope says, "I have a feeling I am making an epic mess of this…"
<Questions> SeanCee says, "Use the guide I just linked."
<Questions> Elspeth says, "Nah, I'm sure you're doing fine"
<Questions> Penelope says, "I am using the guide. Understanding it, or having context, is another matter entirely…"
<Questions> Donner says, "We'll help you through. :) Generally the best place to start is to spend 11 points on attributes, since you start with 2's in everything 8 of those points have already been used. You can go up or down from there."
<Questions> Seamus says, "What's your question? Maybe I can shed light into the darkness?"
<Questions> Donner says, "I can see from your +sheet you've already raised Presence to 3, so you've gotten some of the code to work"
<Questions> Penelope says, "Wait, so I need to spend 11? I raised Mind and Presence 1 each and figured that sounded about right."
<Questions> Donner says, "No, you don't have to."
<Questions> Seamus says, "You can either raise one of them by 1 more, or raise body/reaction"
<Questions> Boo says, "It's recommended that you do. Because the Attributes are forever fixed."
<Questions> Donner says, "But it's generally advised. Most other characters do, and you can't change attributes with XP. They're set for life."
<Questions> Penelope says, "Which is kind of spooky when you are pretty sure you're going to hate your stats when you eventually understand them."
<Questions> Penelope says, "For comparison, how common are 4s (among PCs, not the general population)?"
<Questions> Josefa says, "Common. You can either raise 3 stats to 3, or 1 to 4 and 1 to 3."
<Questions> Josefa says, "Or… drop one to one and be truly pathetic in that area and then I guess you could get 2 to 4."
<Questions> Donner says, "Rough guess, 75% of the characters I have looked at the sheet for have at least 1 four. The most common spreads are 4/3/2/2 and 3/3/3/2"
<Questions> Penelope says, "Well, I described her as being clumsy, but I didn't have life-endangeringly so in mind. :)"
<Questions> Donner says, "You can look at other people'"
<Questions> Donner says, "'s sheets with +sheet Donner"
<Questions> Kenneth says, "i just did this. I bumped my mind up to a 4. Kept the body and presence at a 2. So he is averagly strong and not terribly charismatic. But he is bloody brilliant."
Penelope pages: Any suggestion where to spend my last point? Body and Reaction seem unlikely for a waifish klutz. Either of the other two sound like they'd be especially suitable for me, and should I even consider dropping Reaction to 1 or is that a good way to ruin a sheet quick?
Penelope pages: So naturally I'm tempted to make it a 1 and raise the other two to 4 just to tempt fate.
You paged Penelope with 'Spend them however you like. There is no ruining a sheet.'
<Questions> Penelope says, "OK, I'm gonna do something stupid and if it doesn't work out she can always be killed by a random falling piano."
<Questions> Donner says, "Haha! A bold choice. Donner has two 4's. It's a legit choice."
<Questions> Mabel says, "Why not, Penelope. When you buy your skills you may find you want to use any unused allotment of attribute points after all."
<Questions> Penelope says, "I'm less concerned with the two 4s as the one 1."
<Questions> Penelope says, "Is there an accepted number of points supposed to go into Action and Background?"
<Questions> Donner says, "Well two 4's will always leave a 2 and a 1 for the other stats."
<Questions> Mabel says, "Is that cause you want the 4's or cause a 1 seems interesting?"
<Questions> Penelope says, "Right. I am just saying I didn't make the 1 looking to have a 4, I took 1 because I'd already imagined her as a clutz."
<Questions> Penelope says, "What Mabel said."
<Questions> Donner says, "No, but you should use all of them because they're gone after chargen. A good way to go about it is look through +abilities and +abilities2 and raise <everthing you want> 1. They you can go through and raise skills to levels that make sense."
<Questions> Penelope says, "That makes sense Donner, thanks."
<Questions> Mabel says, "As long as you buy skills in what you want to be able to do OK, it might work. I would probably advise against dumpstattng if you haven't spent the 11 points, though, unless perhaps you want to be an *epic* klutz. :)"
<Questions> Mabel says, "You can always RP klutz with a 2, for instance. :)"
<Questions> Elspeth says, "You do?"
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: What level of wealth do you consider appropriate for the concept? I mean, property wise that kind of square footage in the heart of london is technically loaded, but I see her as having had a stinky rich great aunt who willed it to her all unknown to her, as opposed to she was raised eating gold-plated caviar. You know, a respectably not working class Wizard family, but now decidedly over her head and leaving the bulk of any fortune in Gringott's to cover expenses on the property in the event of disaster. If any of this makes sense?
<Questions> Mabel says, "For instance, we recently had a problem teaching firsties where it was basically impossible to learn a spell without buying a skill point on the spot. :)"
<Questions> SeanCee says, "Mabel isn't wrong. Though one thing to always keep in mind is that this system isn't designed for a lot of rolling. So a low stat shouldn't cripple you."
<Questions> Mabel nods. It's easier to have the attribute and choose to fail than find it impossible if a roll's required, is all: and this isn't about someone with a 1. If you want a 1, buy skills you'll want up, if they're linked to that.
<Questions> Gilbert says, "Just because you have a number on your +sheet doesn't mean you have to RP as if you had it. :)"
You paged Penelope and Boo with 'We were talking it over. She'd need to have "Wealth: Well-To-Do" to run a business in an area with Comfortable level residences.'
Penelope pages SeanCee and Boo: Oh, I forgot I even asked that part hehe. What are the cookie requirements in Quirks about?
Penelope pages SeanCee and Boo: I was going to ask if either of you could look at my sheet as is and comment? About stuff I may have missed, or that I might want to consider, and how the levels look compared to other PCs and such, or with regards to being survivable as a PC?
You paged Penelope and Boo with 'Cookies are something you earn for RP and contributing to the game. So those special Quirks (and other things) are unavailable to new PCs without Cookies. When you apply, we'll go over your sheet.'
Penelope pages SeanCee and Boo: OK, gotcha re: Cookies. Re: going over my sheet, I was kind of hoping to get some feedback first because I have -no- idea where I'm at, and am feeling discouraged and as though I'm screwing the whole thing up so was looking for perspective. I'll see if any o the players have time and feel like helping.
<Questions> Penelope says, "Is there anyone here who would be willing to mentor me some while I try to make this PC? Who can advise re: levels of stuff, anything I've missed or done badly, etc? I don't want to spam everyone, but I really am feeling kind of lost and discouraged."
<Questions> Boo would Pen, but Sean just woke me up at the keys so I think I'm headed bedwards.
<Questions> Inacio says, "you can page me if you want, Penel"
<Questions> Penelope says, "Thank you Inacio!"
New Job Submitted (#50): APP - Penelope
<Public> Penelope says, "Well, that's me submitted, I think!"
<Questions> Penelope says, "All done, I hope."
<Public> Ophelia says, "Yay! Good luck!"
Penelope pages: Well, I hope I got it right. My brain is now dribbling out of my ear, so there might not be enough of it left for a second character any time soon.
Long distance to Penelope: SeanCee nods. "Awesome. We should be able to look it over tomorrow. If there are any issues, we'll give you notes on them."
Penelope pages: I will hope for few to no issues then. Thanks!
Long distance to Penelope: SeanCee salutes.
((Now we have some Public banter, in which Penelope is welcomed, flirted with (at least over her character's PB), and joked with. Not exactly being unwelcome.))
<Public> Penelope says, "One day I will make that Auror, but… no time too soon. Brain all melty."
<Public> Penelope says, "Anyone wanna see my pretty Polish-Ethiopian PC? http://flic.kr/p/djwMMV Such classical features."
<Public> Penelope says, "Yes, that was a joke."
<Public> Gilbert drolls a little bit… "redheeeaaad…:
<Public> SeanCee says, "Hehehe. Yeah…and freckles. :D"
<Public> Gilbert says, "Big +"
<Public> Penelope says, "Be nice! I am told there are children about on this chat. No undressing the redhead in your mind to play connect the freckles."
<Public> Emrys says, "Oh my."
<Public> Gilbert says, "Better not be children. 18+ game. ;)"
<Public> Regulus says, "I am a child at heart."
<Public> SeanCee says, "If there's childrens, get them gone!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "So we can play connect the freckles!"
<Public> Penelope says, "I begin to suspect you had ulterior motives for not letting her be at Hogwarts! *Buys lead-lined shower curtains and window shades*"
<Public> Gareth hides his childish eyes once more.
<Public> SeanCee snorts.
<Public> Regulus says, "No, he just really believes in age-believability. Though I dont think her being a freckly redhead hurts her case. :D"
<Public> Gilbert likes connect the freckles!
<Public> SeanCee says, "It's funny. I didn't used to like freckles. But these days I find them very pretty."
<Public> Penelope says, "Age believability wise she's dressed up like that specifically to look like an English public school girl. If I showed you some of her swimsuit pics, with the boobies and the grapes and all, your head would explode."
<Public> SeanCee chuckles.
<Public> Penelope says, "I used to be jealous of girls with freckles and was amazed to learn that my friend with them wanted them gone!"
<Public> Gilbert says, "Do show! :P"
<Public> Penelope says, "I'm not sure you've been good enough."
<Public> Penelope has disconnected.
<Questions> Penelope has disconnected.
((She disconnects, and comes back later, to be greeted warmly again, and have her questions answered. Yet one of her repeated complaints is being ignored. We also get to hear her mention her experiences on another game she was banned from.))
<Public> Penelope has connected.
<Questions> Penelope has connected.
<Public> Penelope says, "Hi!"
<Public> Penelope says, "Me, apparently. Barfy, and still kind of upset about something shitty someone pulled on me earlier (not here, nothing to do with WaW)."
<Public> Penelope says, "Yeah, some people are just shitty. Important thing is to remember that and never let anyone get you more than once, right?"
<Public> Penelope says, "Love your owl's name!"
<Public> Ophelia says, "Me? Thanks! I spent hours searching for just the right one.<3"
<Public> Ophelia also hopes things end up ok on the other game.
<Public> Penelope says, "No, it won't go OK, damage is done, but better it happened now rather than me getting attached to it. Old news now. So how do you set +finger stuff anyway?"
<Public> Ophelia ahs.
<Public> Ophelia says, "+help +finger_fields"
<Public> Penelope says, "One of these days I will learn MUX code, and then the world will tremble! So what's up at Hogwarts?"
<Public> Penelope says, "I just saw your pic. Clearly you are a troublemaker. :)"
<Public> Ophelia says, "ME!? XD"
<Public> Penelope says, "It's no use denying it."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Ophelia doesn't mean to be a troublemaker. She just accidentally makes EVERYONE fall in love with her."
<Public> Penelope says, "Sounds like potions abuse to me!"
<Public> Ophelia sobs. Its true, I'm horrible!
<Public> Ophelia says, "But not about the potions omg! I am a good girl! ;)"
<Public> SeanCee snickers.
<Public> Penelope says, "Who likes to play with her wand, huh? HUH?"
<Public> SeanCee says, "I can name at -least- four characters that were vying for her attention at once. I'm sure there are more."
<Public> Ophelia ROFL…
<Public> Ophelia says, "What? FOUR?"
<Public> Ophelia is so friggin oblivious.
<Public> Penelope says, "If you confess the Dementors might take it easier on you. MAYBE."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Kaiden, Hephaesta, Colton, and Llewellyn. Those are just the ones I know about."
<Public> Penelope says, "SeanCee sounds like a gossip and a snoop to me. You should shun him. shun him with fire!"
<Public> Ophelia just feels so bad, didn't even notice!
<Public> Ophelia thought Llew liked Phae!
<Public> SeanCee laughs. "Ophelia is so adorably unaware of how wonderful she is." :)
<Public> Ophelia also just thought Colton was like that with everyone. >.>
<Public> SeanCee says, "Llew is Phae's cousin. That was more of a "we'll go to the dance together is we don't have other dates" thing."
<Public> Ophelia says, "Oh. LOL"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Not first cousin, mind you. So it isn't so weird if he -did- like her."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Not that it would matter much. Pure-blood, y'know. XD"
<Public> Ophelia nodnods. XDDDD
<Public> SeanCee says, "What's the mantra? Say it with me: Rampant. Pure-blood. Inbreeding."
<Public> Ophelia echoes obediently.
<Public> Penelope says, "What am I getting myself into?"
<Public> Ophelia says, "Only the bestest of insanity. <3"
<Public> Penelope brandishes wand menacingly.
<Public> Ophelia says, "Oh by the way, Ophe volunteered Phae for a project. >.>"
<Public> Ophelia pounces Penelope's wand and starts rambling about the relevant lore.
<Public> Penelope says, "Do NOT ride my wand!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Gah! What did Ophie get Phae into?"
<Public> Ophelia just…no. XD
<Public> Penelope says, "But the description of it is in my desc if any of it means anything to people who know such things."
<Public> Ophelia says, "Dude s'awesome. We're gonna build a wireless!"
<Public> Penelope says, "SeanCee, am I allowed to make a wiki account?"
<Public> Penelope says, "Crap, I just noticed I forgot to shift a couple of points. How do I do that before approval?"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Go back into character gen, and do +bg/unsubmit. Shift the points, then +bg/submit again."
<Public> Penelope says, "When I type cg I just get "huh""
<Public> SeanCee eyes Ophie. "A wireless? Oh dear." XD
New Job Submitted (#51): APP - Penelope
<Public> Ophelia says, "Its gonna be a big group project for the Ravenclaws, though the idea was Gareth and Gabriel's."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Hehehe. Awesome."
<Public> Ophelia ^_^
<Public> Penelope languishes. Plays with her wand. Sighs loudly.
<Public> Ophelia peers.
<Public> Penelope says, "Go 'way. I'm languishing."
<Public> Ophelia peers… from afar.
<Public> Penelope covers up and languishes from behind thick curtains.
<Public> SeanCee says, "Look, if you're going to languish in private, at least sell tickets, or a DVD, or something."
<Public> Penelope says, "I'll show you a pic of my boobies if you approve me."
<Public> Ophelia …shoves SeanCee at approval!
<Public> SeanCee chuckles.
<Public> SeanCee has Google. :P
<Public> Penelope says, "…"
<Public> Penelope says, "What a dirty, rotten trick."
<Public> SeanCee is ebul?
<Public> SeanCee sadfaces.
<Public> Penelope stomps foot!
<Public> Ophelia says, "Oh, see. Problem is I /like/ ebul."
<Public> Penelope says, "I would work on my Auror but I can't decide on a pic for him. And I don't know what is appropriately twinkly yet."
<Public> Ophelia says, "Twinkly<3"
<Public> Penelope says, "Also I want a job at Hogwarts. I could be a girls' dorm inspector or something."
<Public> Ophelia >.>
<Public> SeanCee says, "Those are Prefects. There aren't a whole lot of adult job opportunities at Hogwarts for PCs, other than assistant professors."
You paged Penelope with 'Though, there's an alt freeze right now, anyhow. So I'd focus on Penelope first. ;)'
You paged Penelope with 'Oops!'
<Public> SeanCee says, "Though, there's an alt freeze right now, anyhow. So I'd focus on Penelope first. ;)"
<Public> Penelope says, "I want to be an assistant professor then!"
<Public> Penelope says, "And I bet this alt freeze is something you just made up because The Man is always trying to keep me down!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Yup. :P"
<Public> SeanCee is The Man.
<Public> Penelope says, "Well, at least you're man enough to admit it. Nothing as lame as a corrupt bastard who won't own up to it. It's all pathetic, really. Like Ebul Lite?"
<Public> SeanCee says, "That's the worst. I own it. I'm Extra Strength Ebul Wrapped in Ebul Bacon."
<Public> Penelope eats the bacon sadly…
<Public> Ophelia says, "Noooo, not the ebul bacon!"
<Public> Penelope says, "Know what makes it even sadder?"
<Public> Penelope says, "I'm half Jewish…"
<Public> Penelope says, "And half Arab. Bacon is forbidden on both sides!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "I just realized I didn't answer you about the wiki. Go apply. On the top navigation bar on the wiki, hover on "Join Us" and click "Join the Wiki." Then follow the instructions on the page it takes you to."
<Public> Penelope sobs as she noms the sin-piggy.
<Public> Ophelia heeeeeeees
<Public> Penelope says, "I just realized why there's an alt freeze. Sean used them all!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "It's true."
<Public> SeanCee says, "I'm greedy like that."
<Public> Ophelia says, "HAH! I think it was Boo. XD"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Heheh."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Between Boo, myself, and Kaiden, we hogged all the alts."
<Public> Ophelia sniggers.
<Public> Ophelia hugs her three little alts happily.
<Public> Penelope says, "… It says another account is using my email address!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "I'd tempt you to make more…but then I'd get less time with the ones you have. :)"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Hrm…have you ever applied to a WikiDot wikib efore?"
<Public> Ophelia says, "Yes, yes you would."
<Public> Penelope says, "Not that I remember."
<Public> Penelope says, "And your shameless drooling over Ophelia is unbecoming, sir."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Nonsense. She's the bee's knees. Seriously. All of the knees."
<Public> Ophelia starts counting her knees.
<Public> Josie has no alts yet. I have one in my head, already set for when alts unfreeze. (Well, haven't written a BG yet, but I have actor and concept in mind.
<Public> SeanCee says, "In any case, chances are you've already got a wikidot account. See if you can do a password retrieval?"
<Public> Ophelia peers curiously at the idea!
<Public> Penelope is beginning to feel highly unnoticed and unloved. "And if I wanted that, I would have stayed on the other game! >:|
<Public> Penelope says, "OK, that explains why it also said my first choice for user name was taken. I apparently took it."
<Public> SeanCee says, "That would do it. ;)"
<Public> Ophelia chuckles.
<Public> Ophelia has done that, a couple of times. >.>
<Public> SeanCee has, too.
<Public> Penelope says, "Know what's worse? I bet you any amount of money that I just re-set the password to exactly what it was before."
<Public> Josie has done that too :)
<Public> Ophelia pats. Nods.
<Public> SeanCee says, "That's how we roll. XD"
<Public> Ophelia says, "It means you'll fit in well here!<3"
<Public> Penelope says, "I'm gonna admit, I have one password for real life important stuff, and one password for all RP stuff."
<Public> Ophelia says, "That's a good idea. I only have one total, its sad."
<Public> Penelope says, "It's not like I'm too worried anyone is going to try and pretend they're me."
<Public> Penelope logs into Ophelia's wiki using the password 'sad'. Now can be popular and get droopy favouritism from SeanCee!
<Public> Ophelia snirks.
<Public> SeanCee lavishes favoritism all over Fauxphelia.
<Public> Penelope says, "YAY! Stolen love is better than no love at all!"
<Public> Penelope says, "'droopy' favouritism? The autocorrect on this browser is… interesting."
<Public> Penelope prefers her men to be of the non-droopy variety.
<Public> Ophelia goggles Penelope's PB. Has little doubt she will have MUCH love.
<Public> Penelope says, "What's my PB?"
<Public> Ophelia says, "Played By, actress."
<Public> SeanCee says, "MUSHes have weird acronyms, says I."
<Public> Penelope says, "Ahhh, gotcha. I was trying to parse "Pure Breed" somehow."
<Public> Ophelia says, "Ooh, I like that. XD"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Werewolf player? :)"
<Public> Penelope says, "Because Ophelia is nice to me she can look at this boozier pic of my PC's model. No one else is allowed to click it. I'll know if you do. http://www.flickr.com/photos/65395772@N04/8092940749/"
<Public> Penelope says, "AFK feels like it's barfin' time again."
<Public> Penelope says, "BOOBSIER. Jeez, this auto-correct."
<Public> Ophelia XDDDD
<Public> Ophelia *_*
<Public> Ophelia says, "Oh yeah. Absolutely no lack of love for her."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Freeeeckles. Mmmmm."
<Public> Penelope says, "I love my new laptop even if the browser autocorrect is a little special ed. *Hugs laptop!*"
<Public> Ophelia's whole computer is practically special ed. Or maybe its just computer Alzheimers…
<Public> Penelope says, "If my laptop was a person, she would be a hot redhead with freckles."
<Public> SeanCee makes out with Penelope's laptop.
<Public> Ophelia rofl
<Public> SeanCee says, "Well, there you go. Now leave us alone. We're snoggin'."
<Public> Penelope says, "Please take your tongue out of Penelope's HDMI slot."
<Public> Ophelia gigglesnorts!
<Public> Penelope says, ""Now Penelope, show us on the technical diagram where SeanCee touched you…"
<Public> SeanCee says, "No. My tugg is thayin' righ' where ib ith."
<Public> Penelope says, "Well, if she gets a virus I'll know who to blame."
<Public> SeanCee says, "I'b nob contaydthus! The dogdor thed tho."
<Public> Penelope says, "Porn for SeanCee: http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/"
<Public> Penelope says, "Everyone else, avert your eyes."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Too skinny. Not my type. XD"
<Public> Ophelia just. Dies.
<Public> Ophelia also falls over asleep, sooootired.
<Public> Penelope says, "Lucky girl."
<Public> Ophelia smooches around. Sleep well when y'all do!
<Public> Penelope says, "I could take sleeping pills, but then I'd wake up at like 5pm and that would be the end of any illusions of a sleep schedule I still cling to."
<Public> Penelope says, "Nini!"
<Public> Ophelia says, "Night!"
<Public> Ophelia has disconnected.
You paged Penelope with 'I gave your app a look-over. Most of it looks good. There are a couple of things you can tweak now to smooth the approval process (it needs to pass inspection from both Boo and I, and she's sleepin').'
Penelope pages: What do I need to do?
You paged Penelope with 'Offensive Magic and Defensive Magic need to be renamed OM and DM, respectively (it's a code thing). Also, she needs one more Quirk. It's a minimum of three Quirks, one of which must be a Wealth Quirk.'
You paged Penelope with 'I think some of the help files on Quirks are misleading. We need to get that fixed.'
Penelope pages: What's the command to edit my sheet again?
You paged Penelope with '+bg/unsubmit'
Penelope pages: what's the link for the list of quirks?
Penelope pages: And if you have any other advice for her, build-wise, I'm all ears.
You paged Penelope with 'On the wiki, under the Character menu (in the top navigation bar) there is a Quirks link. Note that those are just suggestions. Feel free to come up with your own, too.'
Penelope pages: And yes, the bullet point at http://wandw.wikidot.com/quirks up top is misleading if you're looking for where to edit.
You paged Penelope with 'Aha! One of the many that have slipped by. That was the old rule, before we introduced Wealth Quirks. Thank you. I'll fix that.'
You give Penelope a cookie.
From afar, Penelope noms cookie.
You paged Penelope with 'Looks good. Boo and I will look over the BG together tomorrow.'
Penelope pages: Thanks. Can I adjust my Position from here or do I have to go back into CG?
You paged Penelope with 'I'm pretty sure you have to be in the Demographics room to do that. So yeah, you have to go back into CG.'
Penelope pages: MUTTERS.
You paged Penelope with 'By the way, if you want to be able to ride other animals as well, you might consider trading up Equestrian for Riding.'
You paged Penelope with 'Either is fine, but Equestrian implies a specific focus on horses.'
Penelope pages: I had imagined horses but I can change it to Riding!
You paged Penelope with 'Whichever you prefer.'
New Job Submitted (#53): APP - Penelope
Penelope pages: how do I clear out my mail folder?
You paged Penelope with 'First, you do "+mail/clear #" where the # is the number of the mail you want to clear (or you can do a number range, like "1-3")'
You paged Penelope with 'Then, after you've cleared what you want to delete, type +mail/purge'
<Public> Penelope says, "Crap. Because my wikidot account is older than this site I can't make a character page. :/"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Er…that shouldn't be, Penelope."
<Public> Penelope says, "Tell that to the wiki."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Wiki! Don't be lame!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "What sort of error message is it giving you?"
<Public> Penelope says, ""WIKI: ALAS I AM LAME.""
<Public> SeanCee says, "Weird. I've never seen that one. :P"
<Public> Penelope says, "Sorry, you can not create a new page in this category. Only members of this site, site administrators and perhaps selected moderators are allowed to do it."
<Public> Seamus says, "Did you join our wiki?"
<Public> Penelope says, "OMG"
<Public> Penelope says, "So I applied and got this message: You can not apply."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Oh. It's not anything to do with the age of your account. It's because I haven't approved you yet. XD"
<Public> Penelope says, "So I applied and got this message: You can not apply. It seems you have already applied for membership."
<Public> SeanCee shuffles off to do…that.
<Public> SeanCee says, "NOW try."
<Public> Penelope says, "Though it occurs to me that saying this BEFORE approval might not be the best plan…"
<Public> Penelope says, "AHA! I has mastered the powers of creation itself!"
<Public> Penelope says, "And yet, he is an imaginary collection of 1s and 0s. But more to the point, it was SeanCee I was wedgie-threatening."
<Public> SeanCee says, "I missed any wedgie threat."
<Public> Seamus says, "Worse idea. He's wikigod!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "I prefer "Grand Master of Wiki-Fu.""
<Public> Penelope says, "ow do I upload an image file? It no give me option!"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Bottom of the page. Click "Files" and the options will appear."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Has anyone told you about the +wiki command?"
<Public> Penelope says, "No, and I don't have the Files option. I looked."
<Public> Penelope says, "Ah, I do now. I needed to save the page first to get it."
<Public> SeanCee says, "If you type +wiki here (get ready for spam), it'll spit out the code for your wiki page. Just copy and paste, replacing what's already on the wiki page."
<Public> Penelope says, "Gotcha. Wonder which will happen first, Boo wakes up and you both approve me, or I figure out how to get a single element of this bloody wiki working the way I want it."
<Public> Penelope says, "Hint: You have LOTS of time…"
<Public> SeanCee says, "Oh good…cuz I'm gonna crash soon. I've already been up WAY too late."
<Public> SeanCee says, "And don't worry. I'm here to help slap the wiki into behaving as it should."
<Public> SeanCee says, "Time for sleep. (Well, it was time for sleep HOURS ago.) Good night, you beautiful people!"
<Public> Penelope says, "Nini."
(2012-10-19) Staff receives one (of many) Player 'Complaints'
((Earlier in the night before the banning it was brought to staffs attention that after several warnings about keeping things positive and not coming across passive aggressive at other players that the following paged conversation happened:))
<Public> Penelope says, "Hi everyone!"
<Public> Edwin says, "Heyas!"
<Public> Martin says, "Hey."
Penelope pages: Well at least you're welcoming.
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin smiles. "Always."
Penelope pages: Hopefully it be enough. I like the place but it doesn't seem to like me and everyone I bring to look has decided they weren't interested. :(
You paged Penelope with 'I wouldn't say that.'
Penelope pages: I would. I mean I know about my friends not being interested or suggesting I leave too, but when I log in you're like the only personn who says hello to me. :(
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin logs on a lot of the time and nobody says hello.
Penelope pages: I guess I just see all the people who do and awe swamped with welcomes.
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin has been in the same boat. :)
Penelope pages: If you mean discouraged,unpopular and lonely I'm sorry. :(
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin does. "I come on and say hello and a whole conversation goes on around it without any notice. But see… You know you aren't. I'm not. People just get busy.
Penelope pages: Actually, I am pretty much the definition of unpopular online. I tried another MU and as soon as one of the players online who doesn't like me recognized me I got banned from the place.
Penelope pages: That's a pretty typical result for me.
You paged Penelope with 'The more that you think like that… the more it will seem to be.'
Penelope pages: I don't have to say it seems to be. I was explicitly told it was exactly wh by the owner.
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin frowns. "Then they didn't need your energy."
Penelope pages: my energy needs somewhere. I left The reach, which I really liked, over staff attitudes towards homosexuality and some pretty obvious favouritism. I didn't even get the chance to decide if I could make a go of it at Revelations though. Kicked because the owner's friend has a grudge against me for standing up for myself at the Reach. It's always something. :(
Penelope pages: I've tried to bring people here. One just wasn't into the idea of Harry Potter and the other was offended being told he would have to use a known actor for his PC. (Which I have to agree is extremely limiting but I didn't quit over it.)
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin is Bi IRL so I can understand your feelings. And to quit over something like that is a bit prat-ish.
You paged Penelope with 'It's frustrating yes, but I understand why. Pissed me off when I first started.'
Penelope pages: I'm sorry if you think it is prat-ish to quit over people telling you how you must think of yourself and the labels you must accept.
Penelope pages: We'll have to disagree there.
You paged Penelope with 'Hold on. It's a small issue, I had a problem and was prat-ish about it. :) Still, the rest of the game is really good and I see their point. :)'
You paged Penelope with 'The game is amazing. I can overlook one thing about avatars. :)'
Penelope pages: I happen to disagree with their point because it encourages poor role-playing, but I was willing to swallow it because I like it here. My friend wasn't, and suggested I get out before it leads to other troubles he predicted I'd have. I made up my own mind and stayed, but if I ever submit a PC again and get told it has to be an actor I'll drop the PC or the game. I avoid actor for very specific reasons, not to be as you put it a prat.
Penelope pages: I hope the game turns out amazing but most of the time I spend it being ignored so I can't say yet.
You paged Penelope with 'I just mean it is a very small thing on the game as a whole. :)'
Penelope pages: not if it mans you can't play the game at large.
Penelope pages: Anyhow I'll let you go. I didn't mean for tho to turn into a debate, I was just thanking you for being one of the few or only people to make me feel a bit welcome.
You paged Penelope with 'Playing on a game is a privilege, not a right. You abide or leave. I am devil's advocate. I overlooked the thing with avatars, was really frustrated, and now… It's just great.'
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin smiles. "Welcome." :)
Penelope pages: Having players willing to give their time to a game that is a privilege to play is ALSO a privilege, and you're right, You abide or leave. Two people who are far better role-players than me looked around and decided to leave. Maybe I should do the same. You've made me feel quite uncomfortable, though I'm sure without meaning to. Good bye.
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin has not meant to, apologies.
Penelope pages: Well I doubt you'll see me back, so no harm done. *hugs* Take care.
You paged Penelope with 'Hold on a moment. Please.'
Penelope pages: For a moment. Please do not involve anyone else.
You paged Penelope with 'I did not plan to. I just… I am afraid my words have pushed you away when I was trying got help. I am dearly sorry if I have and would wish you didn't leave on a sour note.'
Penelope pages: people rarely leave on a sweet note and a few of the things that you said, coupled with yet another snarky remark from another player earlier is leading me to believe that there's only one way to play here, and that's by kissing the right asses. I've never been good at that I am afraid. I don't ask for much but I do hope for a chance to be treated equally and you'll just have to take my word at it that I do not feel this will be the case here. If you have other games to recommend I'd be interested in knowing them.
You paged Penelope with 'All MUSHes have problems from players. I don't kiss anyone's ass but I do make myself open for helping anyone who needs it. I think that the fact that people don't say hello is a poor measure of a good game. If you feel you must leave, then I think you will miss a great game. I cannot change how you seem to feel it seems. I just think you will miss out on something really good if you leave.'
Penelope pages: I miss out on lots of really good things. Usually because I am not allowed to be a part of them. I already had to compromise over the picture rule and ended up not being allowed to play the one thing I wanted above all others. I discovered a number of other policies that are distinctly "every one is equal except some are much more equal than others, particularly if they make the right PCs happy." That people might not say hello is one thing. That some people go out of their way to snub me is another matter entirely. I really didn't want to make this a drawn out debate. If you play some place else then by all means let me know if you'd like me to look you up. Otherwise st Skype is XXXXXXXXX and my GTalk is XXXXXXXXX
Penelope pages: Well, I appear to have lost your interest. Does that mean I can do without feeling rude about it?
You paged Penelope with 'You have not lost my interest. I figured from your last message that you did not wish to debate the issue further.'
Penelope pages: I don't. That doesn't san I didn't enjoy talking to someone who made the effort to be nice to me. Do you play anywhere else?
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin plays on one that is tied in with a LARP.
Penelope pages: oh well, you have my contact info should you choose to use it.
Long distance to Penelope: Edwin nods.
<Public> Penelope has disconnected.
<Questions> Penelope has disconnected.
(2012-10-19) Penelope Is Banned
((Seancee and Penelope one again have a back and forth because he won't bend the age appropriate policy for her))
Penelope pages: can I ask clarification on something? I lost a player today over it and am having enough trouble getting friends to join me I don't want any issues to just be mistakes in understanding.
You paged Penelope with 'Of course. What's up?'
Penelope pages: Is it true that all pics going forward -have- be be known actors?
You paged Penelope with 'Nope. Boo and I actually tried to clarify this earlier when it came up on Questions. I assume the player is the Guest that was asking about this matter?'
You paged Penelope with 'After that conversation, I actually went into the wiki policies page to clarify exactly this issue. http://wandw.wikidot.com/policies'
Penelope pages: Yeah, he said Boo gave the impression that this was non-negotiable. I'd been helping him find a pic and trying to get him interested in the place. I haven't ha much luck with that among my lot TT friends who aren't Potter fans. :/
Penelope pages: out of curiosity can I get you to look at the pic I found for him? If it's not going to get your stamp of approval no harm done, but if it does I could at least point that out.
You paged Penelope with 'Boo used the term "prefer". I'm sorry if he took that as meaning non-negotiable.'
You paged Penelope with 'Sure. What is it I'm looking for about it?'
Penelope pages: I think he said her language seemed less flexible but I wasn't there or at least could have point out mine isn't an actor. The idea was an older Slytherin student but I didn't get to talk much more about it. I know I got the pic of a teen's clothing site a while back, but not sure if it was Abercrombie or something else. http://www.freeimagehosting.net/8cnez
You paged Penelope with 'It's conceivably passable, but borderline (in my opinion, anyhow). Though it gets into that sticky territory of a student character without a confirmable age again. That's really where we get nitpicky about ages. Also, without the model's name, we run into the problem of others choosing the same model because the name on the +actors list is something like "Model #7".'
Penelope pages: week, I can't help that when I went pic grabbing in days gone by I didn't pay any attention to names and as a rule avoided obviously too young for most site ones. :/ If you'd pass him as say a 6th year Slytherin lemme know and I'll pass the word along. If not, not to worry, I'm not going to fight a battle doomed to be lost. *hugs*
You paged Penelope with 'Found him. The model's name is Adam Senn. He's 28 now. Not sure when that picture was taken. I could research it further, though it's looking like it's fairly recent.'
Penelope pages: I suggested it to him because he looks decidedly high school there to me. If you don't think so no need to look further, I'm sure I took it within the last year or so. Ah well, I was hoping it might convince him that things weren't as inflexible and a few other adjectives as he seemed to feel. If you'd let it slip by lemme know but there's probably no hurry.
You paged Penelope with 'Here's an example of what he looked like at 18 (which could work for a 7th year). http://www.adam-senn.com/gallery/data/media/95/Gucci.jpg (though this pic would be a bit risque! ;D )'
Penelope pages: see to me he looks pretty much the same, age wise, but I can't imagine my friend going for such a pony looking image.
Penelope pages: I'll just not mention to him and let another of my friends turn me down. :/ (It's not always because of the pic policy, don't want you feeling so.)
Long distance to Penelope: SeanCee nods.
Penelope pages: so lemme know if you'd let that one through?
You paged Penelope with 'The policy is very clear on this. He's ten years too old. We allow for a 1-year age difference with student characters.'
Penelope pages: on an unrelated note, could I ask you about the idea I pitched should the alt embargo lift? I've has so little luck with Penny I was even getting ready to ask if I could do that instead though Maeve gives me some hope there.
You paged Penelope with 'Sure! What's the idea?'
Penelope pages: Ironically I just found a pic for him that might actually be student age (Nicholas Hoult http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8is8oP2TQ1qmojxso1_500.png ) but the idea was for a recently graduated, perhaps wanting to be an Auror down the line, to remain at Hogswart as a teaching assistant (maybe in defend of DA to make a relatively resilient target?) since I'd really like to play on Hogswart very badly but never see me managing a student. :( I mailed you and boo to try and 'reserve' the idea.
You paged Penelope with 'I almost used Nicholas Hoult once for a student character (since aborted). :) I don't see an issue with the idea. An Assistant Professor for DADA makes sense for someone studying to be an Auror. The main thing is there are OOC responsibilities associated with that role as well. You really need to know your lore when it comes to the subject you're teaching, and make sure it syncs up with our take on the lore. That'll mean developing syllabi to submit to us when you want to run a class (can't have asst. profs teaching wrong info ;) ).'
Penelope pages: Makes sense but if you'd allow him as a student like 6th year (since you almost used him) I could take advantage to learn in play and grow into the TA role, no?
You paged Penelope with 'Certainly, but it would need to be him at around 16 (the image you gave is more like 20+ Hoult. This is him circa 16: http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2005_The_Weather_Man/2005_the_weather_man_017.jpg'
Penelope pages: aaaaargh. I fell on the other one because I *liked* that pic. the one you shows me I would want to puny. :(
Long distance to Penelope: SeanCee shrugs. "It's just one picture of him. There's plenty more at the appropriate age."
Penelope pages: If you can find one that has what I like about the one I showed you I'd be eternally grateful. I'd throw out Penny to be able to play a student but anything that pleases my eye seems to not qualify.
Penelope pages: I know, but since i was told we could have multiple pcs when i made her and then after I was told there was a freeze on that, it's caused me a certain discontent. Would you help me find a pic of him sixth year or so appropriate that maybe I won't hate?
You paged Penelope with 'I'm sorry that it's caused you discontent. But that you're so willing to toss away a character like that, after so much energy was spent on her, doesn't make me eager to spend more energy on another character. The alt freeze won't last forever. We said two weeks tops. It's been a week. Please, just be patient. Another character is an alt, whether you dump Penny or not. The idea of the freeze was to lighten our workload so we could catch up on some very necessary jobs to improve the game.'
Penelope pages: No one told me two weeks tops, or that it was a week in. Try to look at it from my point of view, no one told me any of the kind and when I tried to ask you about it i never got an answer. So I'm sorry that leaves you less than rare to help me. If I'd known those things in the first place I would have phrased things differently and not ended up feeling like I'm in the doghouse again for things people only half told me. I'll leave you alone.
You paged Penelope with 'But everyone was told. The two-week time frame is clearly stated on the Announcements bulletin board, as is the date the alt freeze began (which actually shows we're even further than a week in).'
Penelope pages: If only I knew how to use the bulletin board, or that any number of the times I asked about it even one person had pointed me there and I would have asked about how to work it. But that didn't happen when I asked. So telling me this just makes me feel stupid and less liked than I already did since clearly no one felt I was worth the help.
You paged Penelope and Boo with 'Just about anything can be learned with the +help command, which is clear as crystal on the intro screen when you first log in. Stop with the negativity. It's exhausting, and you've been asked many, many times to leave it at the door.'
At this point Boo is included…
SeanCee pages Penelope and Boo: Just about anything can be learned with the +help command, which is clear as crystal on the intro screen when you first log in. Stop with the negativity. It's exhausting, and you've been asked many, many times to leave it at the door.
Penelope pages Boo, Penelope, and SeanCee: except that the +help os mot as easy as you make it out because half the time you have to put extra + and other times you don't and you have to know exactly what you're asking for. I was not being negative, I am pointing out that I have been having difficulties because I am brand new to this, and when I pointed out that i had asked and not gotten help on something you call me negative. I'm sorry I'm stupid and can't master all this in a day. But I'm also sorry that you've decided to interpret my hard work and occasional frustration when it gets me nowhere as "negativity" because that's exactly the kind of label that makes me scared to ask for more help.
Penelope pages Boo, Penelope, and SeanCee: I'll leave you guys be and let you deal with people who already know it all. Sorry for wasting time on me that could have been spent on people who already know these things and aren't totally intimidated trying to learn them and so not look stupid and not worth playing with.
You paged Penelope and SeanCee with 'Here is a bit of advice, keep at it. People don't see it, are busy when you ask, are afk etc. Or have the channel gagged at the moment. Asking once, even twice and then the next time you ask also wrap a complaint that you're not getting the answers you want doesn't do much to instill a desire to leap to aid. You've sounded like you've had quite a history with playing on MUs and BB use is pretty universal throughout.'
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: Actually this is the second MU I have ever been on, the first where I spent three weeks was a different software AND I was using a PC with all kinds of command shortcuts that no longer work on the Mac I'm on now and the only reason I am "wrapping any kind of complaint" is because SeanCee scolded me for not knowing something when I was given incomplete, misleading information when I did ask, and did not know where/how to find the information he assumed everyone knew clear as day, thus both making me feel stupid and leading him to tell me why he felt no urge to help me.
You paged Penelope and SeanCee with 'You come across as very quick to assume that everyone is against you and don't like you. We are very sorry that you're feeling lost. I know I try to help you whenever I see you asking for help. I know what it's like to be new to MUing as does Sean, this is only his second MU himself. But once again, there's a point where it does become exhaustive. It is also 2:48 AM here for us and I can tell you just how at wits end Sean is right now because when he tries to help you, very little gets through from what we can see from this side of things. In the welcome room it specifically states that we need playtesters with spirit and willingness to help build the game and a good attitude also. Like I said, keep asking, don't lose heart, don't get negative and don't think that we're all a bunch of evil people because we at times can't help you to the point that you need. It's a big game, we have very very full plates. We try to please everyone but we can't as that's impossible to do to perfection.'
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: I agree with it being a big age and all but I will gladly post the entire conversation for you, or everyone if you prefer, and you can decide who got negative and dismissive. Me? Or your partner? I am afraid I must completely but respectfully disagree with your characterization of this day's events. My attitude has been nothing but positive, I have tried to recruit new players, I immediately tried to help Maeve/Vanessa when they made reference to needing a place to live…
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: I don't claim to be an angel, but I am afraid this one is on you guys and while I hold out some hope you're the sort of people who can recognize when maybe you were the cause of someone else's issue for a change, I won't hold my breath because my experience with staff is that they have an awful time admitting that their assumptions may be flawed. So I'll stick around long enough for you to reply or boot me but I am truly exhausted trying to defend what I know were nothing but good intentions and which you have decided were anything but.
Long distance to Penelope: Boo thinks at this point it's best if we go to bed. Because it's going to get circular. We're sorry you're feeling lost. We try to help when we can to the best of our ability, there's only so much we can do. +help gives a list of exactly what to type after +help to get more info on it. +help bbs will get you help on the bbs. I'll point out that I've stepped in, and for good reason, because Sean is utterly frustrated and tired. So don't think that I've not spoken to him as well. But this is about you and not just this conversation. While you did do the things you said you did which is great, you were also a few moments later talking about dropping Penelope like a sack of dirty diapers. So as Admins that throws up bright red flags that all you're doing is wasting our time. There are people that are termed Trolls on MUs that go from MU to MU with different aims. Some to have creepy paged conversations with random people. Some to see just how far they can push staff and the player base before they do get the boot or sitebaned. For the record you will not ever be booted from the game. I demand my players to act like adults. You think you're exhausted, we've gone through days of trying to help you and bending over backwards to make you feel welcome and far as we can see, you're fine with tossing out all the hard work done in a blink. It's disrespectful and rude. Imagine that you spend many days working on a sand sculpture and some bratty little kid runs up and jumps on it and smashes it and runs away snickering. That is about how Sean was understandably feeling.
Long distance to SeanCee: Boo thinks at this point it's best if we go to bed. Because it's going to get circular. We're sorry you're feeling lost. We try to help when we can to the best of our ability, there's only so much we can do. +help gives a list of exactly what to type after +help to get more info on it. +help bbs will get you help on the bbs. I'll point out that I've stepped in, and for good reason, because Sean is utterly frustrated and tired. So don't think that I've not spoken to him as well. But this is about you and not just this conversation. While you did do the things you said you did which is great, you were also a few moments later talking about dropping Penelope like a sack of dirty diapers. So as Admins that throws up bright red flags that all you're doing is wasting our time. There are people that are termed Trolls on MUs that go from MU to MU with different aims. Some to have creepy paged conversations with random people. Some to see just how far they can push staff and the player base before they do get the boot or sitebaned. For the record you will not ever be booted from the game. I demand my players to act like adults. You think you're exhausted, we've gone through days of trying to help you and bending over backwards to make you feel welcome and far as we can see, you're fine with tossing out all the hard work done in a blink. It's disrespectful and rude. Imagine that you spend many days working on a sand sculpture and some bratty little kid runs up and jumps on it and smashes it and runs away snickering. That is about how Sean was understandably feeling.
Penelope pages Boo and SeanCee: What you (SeanCee) could have done in this case is when referring to his frustration and the alts pointed out that it would end in a few days, and perhaps not assume I was out to waste his time, especially considering the entire conversation to-date had been productive and cordial. I talked about being willing to drop her for the one character I most wanted to play here, a student, when it finally seemed possible BECAUSE I knew there was a omit of one PC, and because I had NO IDEA when/if that limit would be lifted. All he'd had to do was not assume there that I was willingly throwing out all that work if there's only 4 days or whatever left on the freeze. I still don't know. But what is disrespectful and rude is assuming I was being a brat when I had been nothing but cordial and trying to work with him, and not only did he still not provide information he could easily have done so, he gave me shit for not knowing it when I told him I didn't and didn't know how to find it. So no, he was NOT understandably feeling that way. He was feeling that way because he jumped to conclusions bout me when he could have easily asked. It seems clear to me that the only way this dialogue works for you is if you are the patient but aggravated soul dealing with a rude and ill-intentioned brat. Well, I am not the latter, and I will not be cast as such. If anything, I am seeing major alarms going off suggesting that I might be dealing with staff who find it far more important to "win" than they do to "try and make sure they're doing the right thing/not leaping to conclusions and then feeling obliged to defend said conclusions rather than admit the possibility they did some harm." I have no more to say. If I'm blocked next time I try to log on, I will take that as your answer. I am not trying to "win" any dispute here. I am saying that I feel, with no little justification, than I was shat on by one of the people in charge and if that is the way it has to be here, then I will welcome that ban rather than be told again that everything is my fault, ever. Good night.
You paged Penelope and SeanCee with 'I have stated quite clearly already that Sean was in a bad headspace, which happened the moment you said you were going to give her up. The reasons behind it are meaningless. You were going to drop a character that we all went through the ringer to get done and approved. That is the crux of it. By saying that you were going to drop Penelope pretty much ended Sean's willingness to help you in the process of dropping Penelope. He's a human being that is at wits end. I've not said everything is your fault. In fact I've done nothing but try to explain to you where Seancee is coming from. Again, I've actually done very little to defend either of you in this last tiff you had. There were no leaping to conclusions. You said you were was a chance you were getting rid of Penelope. On public channel even. So that says to staff that in less than an hour you go CAPSLOCKING THAT YOU WANT HER TO LIVE AT YOUR PLACE. To …if Pen is still around. I have read the log between you and SC before, and it is peppered with negativity that SC let go several times. I've also read other logs that have you coming across negatively and also to the point of being term (not by either of us) as coming across very passive aggressively. There's only so much we can let slip and give you second and third chances and all we get in return…especially myself when I try to step in… that we're horrible evil people here that live to shit all over you. In actually it's us the staff and players that are feeling rather shat all over. I have even defended you against people that have had enough of your behavior. Many think that you're a new breed or epic Troll. I've tried to not think that. But you've done nothing but test my patience and my good will from day one. The constant demands to be booted and sitebanned gives a great deal of weight to why people think you are a Troll. All I have ever ever ever asked you to do is be a positive healthy addition to this community. People have bent over backwards to get to in the community and to welcome you and all you can do complain that you don't get enough attention. It's exhausting! Think it over. Quit playing the 'I'm stupid' excuse. It and every other excuse you might have for coming across as a Troll doesn't float. There are many people here that have health and mental issues some better some worse than yours I'm sure and they are completely capable of playing here with a good attitude, if they don't are capable of it, I give them the exact same speech of read over our Policies. Asking a staffer to consider bending or breaking a policy is not kosher. If you can't live by them, then please have a nice life. Good night. End of conversation.'
Penelope pages: Thank you for making clear you are gossiping to be about others. One of the period of ad hominem argument is that it exposes you as doing one of two things. Making things up, or spreading private conversations to others. Neither improves your arguments in my eyes.
<Public> Penelope says, "Good bye all."
You paged Penelope with 'People come to US. You truly don't listen.'
Penelope pages: But I do. I've never mentioned booting or banning to anyone but you in private.
Penelope pages: But that aid, if so many unnamed sources want me gone, you would be remiss in not banning me. Because all you needed was to acknowledge that maybe you guys leapt to conclusions and this would be over and done with. You've chosen the "I am infallible" route which makes clear I cannot expect unbiased treatment from you now or in the future. I have no plan to make a public stink, I have nothing against anyone here, not even the ones you claim think I'm some horrible troll. I've had a few people suggest that you're not the sort of owner that I should put my trust in. I tried anyhow. I wish you the best, you, SeanCee, and everyone else. But I can't accept your rather biased presentation as being an accrete reflection of events. Since the only people it would be relevant to reach and have any accord with is, ironically, you and SeanCee, and you've made it clear there is no room in your world view for any such thing, I have nothing more to say. Not only can I not win here, I never wanted to. I just wanted you to see past your prejudgment and take a step back with the condescension and threats of acting on it.
Penelope pages: People (you included) too me he was awesome at finding pics. I asked if he would do so. That was it. His was leaping to conclusions about what I knew, what others may have told me, and what I was reasonably expected to know, without once asking me about it. Yours was picking a side without benefit of the facts and barreling in to defend him, particularly when the conversation would have been long, long ended had you not. Every time you do this you make things worse.
You paged Penelope with 'What part of end of conversation was not clear? Good-bye. Take your Primadonna, "Good BYE no wait…please please stop me…NO I meant it this time, you suck…GOOD BYE…I'm going to sit here and make you siteban or boot me, because I'm a Troll, that says no hard feelings but I'm gonna sic my friend on you because you don't let me get away with negative bullshit. No…really…this time I mean it. I'm leaving. Good-Bye…Wait…you've not sitebanned me yet? Oh goodie I can continue to harrass you then. Whoopy…you suck. You said you're sorry, but dammit you can't apologize. Good-BYE! I mean it…really Good-BYE!'
LASTIP [#1cw+]: 70.82.105.16
You paged Penelope with 'Seriously, there's so much even a saint can take. Take your bad attitude and just go. We're done. Happy Trolling.'
Penelope pages: Well, if you won't accept an apology there seems no point in making another one. And no, I'm not going to sicc anyone on me. But thanks for that, you confirmed a few suspicions of mine concerning you. So again, you want me gone, ban me. I'm not going to make any public stink here, but I will reply to every post you make that further illustrates why I would never have a chance here. And trolling does not mean what you seem to think it does. It's clear you consider yourself a saint, but on that I will respectively differ.
Penelope pages: What I'm doing refusing to slink away because you say so is that every reply you make to my posts like this adds your words to my log which I will keep in the event that, long after you have banned me, I go to another site, where hopefully they will be more understanding that I am new to this software environment, at very least, and if someone there has concerns over something they heard from you on one of your alts/cronies, I can provide the actual words spoken on both sides. Once you announced yourself as being an enemy, and not a potential friend, I would have to be stupid not to protect myself by recording the content of the actual exchanges.
You paged Penelope with 'You know what, you are right. You have completely changed my mind. I never ever dreamed I would ever @boot or more so Ban someone. But I realize your biggest complaint is we don't give you what you want. So let me give you what you want as a parting gift.'
<Public> Penelope has disconnected.
<Questions> Penelope has disconnected.
GAME: Penelope has disconnected.
You booted Penelope off!
Site 70.82.105.16 banned
(2012-10-19) Penelope's Defender
((Penelope has a friend that logs onto a game whenever she gets upset or kicked off. This happened shortly after she was banned.))
Guest pages: I'm writing after a call from my friend. No, I'm not going to flame you, he doesn't know I came back. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry things didn't work out for whatever reason, because I know she had been really excited about this place and its owners, and now she's bawling and blaming herself. I know her well enough to know it's never one-sided, but I wanted to say that I hope whatever it was was really irreconcilable, because I wouldn't have considered playing Harry Potter for anyone less than brilliant player, which she is, and somewhere that was really amazing, which she raved it was. So it looks like you both lose if it's that serious. I think that would be a sad thing, because I'm her friend and she doesn't have a whole lot going in her life that made her smile like talking about you guys. I'll stick around if you want to say anything to me, but it's not really necessary. I'm not here to cause trouble.
From afar (to Guest and SeanCee), Boo includes SC in the repose, apologies Guest. "I have to protect my game and she's proven to be nothing but a negative influence here. We've had many complaints lodged against her. We tried, we really did, but when she time after time is trying to get Seancee to bend policy and then gets negative and comes across as pouting and complaining because she didn't get her way. It's unfortunate, she literally begs to be booted and banned if things don't go her way. I finally after many many days of trying to bend over backwards to welcome her have reached my limit. I have even defended her and if you're the same guest as before /you/ to players that were offended by her and by you. But she just keeps on and on and on with the negativity and she was warned that if she couldn't be positive she'd be asked to leave. We asked her to leave. She dug her heels in, and demanded to be booted and sitebanned. So we finally caved and gave her her wish."
Guest pages: You don't have to convince me. You won't, anyway, without logs and names. This isn't my first rodeo. All I will say is that I read the log. All of it, from the minute she logged on to the moment she was banned. Take it for what it's worth. She was talking to SeanCee the way she does to a friend, someone she trusted, and dude, you fucked up jumping down her throat. It happens, and I doubt it would have been a problem but your wife/girlfriend/partner jumped in. Then she was scared and defensive, and from what I read, she had good reason to be. As for the site banning, you can blame that on me if you want. She has a long history of caving in and swallowing her pride and going back to something that's treated her poorly, and I convinced her that if she really feels she'll never get a fair shake, to get herself banned so she can't be tempted to swallow whatever hurt her and come back for a second serving. This is your site, you do with it what you want. I'm just telling you that, based on knowing her way longer than either of you, she can be the biggest ray of sunlight this site would ever see. What you're calling negative, from what I read, is her scared and insecure, because she worries she's lost you. Maybe she had by then. But she wasn't trying to get anyone to bend policy, something I saw you claim in the log. What I did see her do is also in that log, and if it was me being told I screwed the pooch reading something wrong, or reading into something, I know I'd go back and read it over, because no one who's afraid to look at things with a new pair of eyes deserves to have that kind of power over someone else's happiness. So in parting, SeanCee, you seem like a reasonable guy. If you want her email I'll give it, some kind word would probably be well received from you, even if it has nothing to do with this place. As to Boo, like I said I've been around the block a few times. I'm not going to try and convince you that your head might be somewhere dark right now, it's something you'll either consider or you won't on your own, but never at the words of a stranger.
Boo pages Guest and SeanCee: You failed to include Seancee in that last one, I sent it to him. It's not Staff vs her, it's not just our perception. You read that one log, you've not read every log of us breaking our backs to make her feel welcomed, you haven't read the logs of her with other players. You are extremely biased and the only reason why I'm in a dark place is I just got pressured for the millionth time by a player to boot and ban them*. I have never ever had this sort of thing happen. She has, she points it out constantly. So as I was telling her, perhaps if she continuously has issues across the board, the trouble isn't with the other people, it's with them. I have apologized to her I have defended the both of you and I am exhausted. It's 6 AM she has been the biggest time sink and it's been nothing but us bending over backwards and her tossing it back in our faces from day one.
(*To clarify, the player pressuring us to boot and ban Penelope was Penelope. While we did get other complaints, not one other person even suggested a boot or ban.)
Guest pages Boo and SeanCee: Sorry new to this whole thing. If you're going to argue ad hominem, you're not going to hold any water with me, sorry. I could go around gathering people saying shit about how you run the place, I'm sure. That's true anywhere. So if you want to talk, we need to keep this to those involved. I don't give a shit what player A may or may not have said, especially since I don't know whether player A knows her from somewhere else and is grinding an axe. And neither do you. Well, if you do she's well shut of the place. So between you and me: Of course I
SeanCee paged Guest and Boo with 'I appreciate your loyalty to your friend. It's admirable, and I'm glad she has someone that cares about her like you do. But you're now making judgements about me without all of the facts. My reactions to her are based on a consistent pattern of negative behavior that has cause myself, Boo, and many of our players a considerable amount of stress, and cost a lot of time and energy that we should be spending on the entire game, not a single player. She absolutely was trying to get me to bed policy, and has done so since Day One. Our policy on actor pictures for students may be strict, but the policy and the reasons for it were clearly explained to her, and still she asked for one picture after another that violated that policy to be considered. This is just the icing on the cake. She complains that she gets ignored, despite the warm welcomes, flirtations, and joking that she has engaged in with the community. She complains that her questions aren't answered, when several players, plus ourselves, have fielded question after question after question from. One of our players even handheld her through the entire character generation process. But one or two questions get lost in the spam, and she acts like we treat her as if she's invisible.'
SeanCee paged Guest and Boo with 'Tell you what. Keep the language civil, or leave.'
Boo pages Guest and SeanCee: I've been shown logs along with the complaints, so you know what, I'm pretty well informed about how negative she's been to others around here and my first duty is to protect the positive influences on the game and say good bye to the ones that aren't. That's always been the case, she came back knowing that's the case, yet continued to come across as passive aggressive, sulky, and negative. So she very well could be a basket of sunshine on that side of the screen. I hope she is. The sad fact is that she's not on this side of the screen, mine and many of my players. We welcomed her here even after people tried to warn us off of her because I don't do as you claim. I have given her every chance, I have tried, and I have grown exhausted in trying with no success to make it clear to her that as long as she follows policy and doesn't drive anyone nuts, she's welcomed. She's been driving people nuts. I can't say it enough that I never dreamed it would come to this. But there's only so many times I can be begged to boot and ban someone without caving to their demands. It's over, it's very regrettable. I say I'm sorry and get that thrown back into my face. Give her our best, we had hoped for a different turn out than this. Have a nice day.
Guest pages Boo and SeanCee: I'll figure this out eventually. Of couse I'm biased, and so are you. Boo, you come across as someone who holds the only Truth and Light in the world, and it's off-putting. Whether you see it, or sincerely believe it, I promise you, you're just as fallible as everyone else stumbling through life. Again, you got pressured by a player to boot and ban them? Name? She assures me she never said a single thing to anyone on this site to give anyone cause to dislike her… Except you, in private. I believe her because she tells me the truth. So either you're going ad hominem, or you're getting complaints that may need some backing up. I presume you checked logs, checked this theoretical person's past history on this or other places, asked them about their past with her, etc? Let's be blunt. I would bet a lot of money you did no such thing. I'm done. Boo, you've convinced me that if you're not one of the famous sandbox admins of the past, your name will soon be among them. Not going to waste any more time on you. Sean, I can only go by this one log but "Is this one OK?" isn't violating policy its trying to ADHERE to it. If you saw it otherwise, you have an interesting take on your own job. Nor did she make any general complaint about questions, or whatever. She said she got one incomplete and therefore misleading answer to ONE question, the one that happens to have set you off. Your idea of what constitutes a complaint is probably a bit too thin for you to make a good admin either, but that kind of thing can be learned. I was going to pass her address as I'd mentioned but frankly you're no good for her, and I'd rather show her the words you just typed and cure her of that good impression. Good night, and good luck. If you want this to be more than a sandbox for you two, a couple of friends, and your 50 pcs' endless turns as the centre of all romantic drama, you'll need it. I've got the distinct impression I've met you before. You didn't run the underage Japaese schoolgirl place did you? If not, look them up